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2004 BMW 5-Series

MSN Autos, while previewing hot autos for 2003-2004 has some photos of the upcoming BMW 5-series. The re-designs of recent years has left only 3-series to be worth the BMW badge. First they screwed the 7-series and then messed up Z4, but this new 5-series design one tops them all.

Gone are the clean lines and timeless curves of the current 5-series. The grill looks more like a Pontiac mated with a 1998 Hyundai Sonata. Headlight assembly seems to look like the new 7-series', but the glass housing is more Japanese/Korean than European.

Tail lamp cover is very much like a (1999 or 2000?) Kia Rio’s. The reflectors in the rear-bumper look like old wounds. Luckily, this one doesn’t have the attached-as-an-after-thought trunk-lid as in the 7-series.

Only thing I liked about this is that it looks more muscular than the current 5-series, around the doors.

The engineering must be superb though, coming from BMW. It is rumoured that the next M5 will have a V10 - I think this car needs that engine to sell. It will probably sell anyway because it is a BMW, but it might be hard to sell based on looks. This one also has the i-Drive (and you keep scratching your head RTFM) system from 7-series. For driving pleasure alone, 5-series must rank as best mid-size sedans ever made.

Plea to BMW designers: The minor design updates the 3-series has been receiving has made it to look very clean, very nice and every inch a BMW from every angle. Since 3-series is now due for a complete re-design, I’m very much scared that you will add ugly wet-underwear like headlights and cheap looking gimmicks at the rear. Spare the thought! Current 3-series is a damn fine design. Please don’t mess up the hard work of your engineers by attaching designs nobody can figure out.

1. As a BMW fanatic since my teen years I love the new direction they are taking. I agree that the 5 and 7's of old are excellent designs and excellent cars, but they are just that old. BMW is finally stepping into the 21st century with it's design. For once a car company is trying to appeal to me, the 25 to 35 year old, who will be buying their cars for years to come instead of the 40, 50, and 60 somethings who yearn for yester year. Great Job BMW keep it up!!!!

   Posted by: MS on April 17, 2003 02:04 PM

2. Hey, I'm in the 25-35 range - around the middle of the range and it doesn't appeal to me :-( My issue with this is that it looks like "common" cars like Kia and Pontiac. Not the distinct BMW look.

   Mercedes and Audi have modernized their fleet recently. They don't look like Korean or American cars. Audi is quite youthful too.

   Posted by: Babu on April 17, 2003 07:21 PM

3. NO!! Absolutely not!! There is no way that you can say that the new bodystyles on bimmers look like Pontiacs..What were you thinking? They look absolutely striking, a new 7 looks like a space ship!! Honestly! Although I am also a fan of Audi, they are very, very plain, and come way after the incredible styling of new Benzes and Bimmers. Please, don't ever make a ridiculous comment like that again! BMW. Porsche and Mercedes rule all!!

   Posted by: Colin Maciver on April 21, 2003 04:03 PM

4. I have to laugh...everytime someone puts down this car they always say they prefer the looks of a car half the price.

   Let's be honest, you talked yourself in the car that is half the price because you can't afford the 5.

   Nothing to be ashamed of. But just because I can't afford a Picasso, doesn't mean I can't appreciate the beauty!

   Posted by: Dave on April 21, 2003 08:12 PM

5. #4 - I don't see any comments about someone prefering looks of a car half the price. The point is that this one looks like the combination of cars worth half the price.

   Is there a need for Bimmers to look like those "fast-and-furious" cars? I don't think so. May be they will add clear-lens tail lamps (Altima, Lexus IS300) to the next 3-series. Yuck.

   Posted by: Babu on April 22, 2003 05:37 AM

6. I really don't know how one can dismiss a car when they have only seen it in a one dimensional picture.

   Balu, you sound like one who doesn't like change, you are already writing of the next 3 series and they haven't even designed it yet!

   5 series sales are declining fast for a reason, it is getting tired looking.

   Both the 7 series and Z4s are outselling their predecessors, I am sure the new 5 series will too.

   I put my deposit on one last weekend, should pick it up late September.

   Posted by: dave on April 22, 2003 06:25 PM

7. I'm 32, and have owned three different Bimmers since turning 17-- two 3's, and now a 5. I will be buying a Mercedes or Audi for my next car. Yes, BMW has changed the styling. But it is too radical a change and the look does not reflect ANY heritage of previous styling!! Moreover, the look is- in many peoples opinions- ugly.

   I will now settle for another high-mark Euro car that probably won't drive as crisp as my 5.
   

   Posted by: J.S. Blanc on April 24, 2003 04:27 PM

8. I have had a BMW 325IS for sixteen years and I love it. but now it is time for it to be retired. I have debated on whether to get a 2003 BMW 530I, 2004 BMW 530I or a 2004 Mercedes-Benz E320 or E500. I am a woman who is over fifty, but I still want my car to be responsive and appealing to the eye. I just placed an order for a BMW 2004 530I. Nonetheless, I am concerned that I may not like the look of the 5 series, once I see it "live and in color." I am going to take a chance that the 2004 BMW 530I will look better to me than it seen to look to some of its critics. I am very confident that it is going to be the Ultimate Driving Machine! Please Lord, don't let me be wrong!

   Posted by: Dee on April 24, 2003 07:48 PM

9. Have a little faith. While unnerving at the get-go, BMW doesn't disappoint in refinement and style. I have a feeling when we see the brake lights light up for the first time, we'll understand. When we get up close to the headlight casing, we'll simply admire. Nothing new is easy at first, but this is Bavaria's bread and butter, and they can't afford to screw it up.

   Posted by: Tanner Powell on April 25, 2003 01:30 PM

10. I've put my order in for the new 5 series. It looks (that being the key) more sturdy, and definitely will catch your attention. Although it my a look like other cars on the road the difference is one. Other cars are not a BMW. The look of the car will grow on you. Don't pass this up!

    Posted by: byron on April 25, 2003 01:44 PM

11. How could you say that this car looks like other cars, have u taken note of the styling cues, the sharpe lines, the appropriate curves, the distinctive grill, the aggressive yet subtle look..huh?...Dee, u dont need a prayer, if this car disappoints u, there is now other car in its class that will satisfy u...BMW cars have always been class leaders, and the 3 Series and the 5 Series have been their most successful line ups(Not to mention the X5)....and everbody here can agree that over the years BMW cars have only gotten better.....BMW - "Perfection looked us straight in the eye, and blinked"

    Posted by: Thiorb on April 25, 2003 02:37 PM

12. I've been mulling a BMW 3 or 5 series as my first BMW. I've test driven a few, and overall I agree with the assessments I hear and the motto ("Ultimate Driving Machine"). I really like the "old" 5 design and I'm still on the fence about the new one.

    On the lighter side, hopefully the redesign will help some BMW drivers find their directional signal lever (although it's usually near the horn which these people have no difficulty locating) and recognize what a STOP sign means.

    Posted by: John on April 28, 2003 01:02 PM

13. I had no idea we could order the 5 series now. Did they give you an exact price or just an estimate?

    Posted by: Sharon on April 28, 2003 03:46 PM

14. How can people say that the new 5 series looks ugly, what kind of taste do you people have. If it was designed any other way you people still would denounce it, and thats pretty bad coming from BMW fans. If you people don't like it don't but it, its still gonna out sell the E class, A6 and the GS 430 as it has done for the past 6 straight yrs. People criticized the new 7 series and its still neck and neck in sales with the S class. Then again you people must be boring drivers who doesn't appreciate class leading sporty driving from the Ultimate Driving Machine.

    Posted by: hevv on April 28, 2003 04:35 PM

15. I just purchased my new 530i after confirming that it would incorporate syling cues from the 745.

    Now, having seen the 2004 5 Series...all I can say is, "Thank God Almighty for 2003!"

    Posted by: Robert on April 28, 2003 10:48 PM

16. People who's talking about orders on 2004 BMW 5 series, how much will it cost?

    Posted by: Ed on April 29, 2003 02:08 PM

17. Ed,

    I have put a downpayment on the a 2004. They still do not know the exact cost, but estimate it will be 2,000 more then the existing model.

    Robert, there is a reason why 5 series sales have dropped som much this year, and that is everyone is waiting for the 2004. I hope youre dirty cause you are going to take a bath on your 2003 when you sell!

    Posted by: dave on April 29, 2003 07:42 PM

18. Well, I for one waited to see what the new 5 would look like and decided to go with a 2004 545i six speed rather than the old 5 series. Both have excellent qualities, but the new 5 is fresh, clean, and will sell well. For those of you stuck on the past - get over it and look to the 21st Century!!!!

    Posted by: Jim Dye on April 30, 2003 08:29 AM

19. As a BMW Salesperson the majority of the feedback on the 04 5 series styling I have recieved has been positive. BMW is simply showing they are not content to follow with comfortable designs that will only look current for 3-4 years. Instead they have chosen to be the brave leader and choose designs that will age well over the next 6-7 years.

    Something I I have learned over the years selling cars it is that people don't typically like change all that much. You will always have people that are like the previous design better than the new one. It always takes a little time for the new designs to grow on you.

    We have been told we will recieve ordering guides at the end of May. I would imagine that is when BMW will likely give us pricing information. We are currently taking orders and our store already has a list of deposited customers numbering around 20. These customers haven't bought anything as of yet they have simply reserved their spot in line. They will have the first option to purchase the new car. We do not have any color charts or option lists at this point. Obiviously we would allow our clients to make their final decision once they see in the car in person. It would not be ethical to keep ones deposit on a new model they have never seen in 3D.

    For those of you who prefer the current 5 BMW is offering very aggressive leases on them while they last.

    Posted by: Ben M on April 30, 2003 02:14 PM

20. Currently in a 2000 540i, second 540 I've owned. Was going to move up to a 7 but hate the rear of the car. Thought about moving to an S Class but decided to wait for the new 5: wasted wait. Trunk lines are not as ridiculous as the 7 but what's with the "slanted up eyelash" headlights. Screws the trunk up on one, the front end on the next. Bangle needs to be bounced or relegated to the sports cars only. At least he got the Z4 right. Why does he continue to screw up the sedans?

    As for the 7 outselling the previous model, that's because the 7 tailed off badly the last few years of the body style run. It was getting old, the new one was anticipated and the new S class was hammering it pretty soudly the last few years.

    As for the styling comment about "fresh and clean": Pontiac said that about the Aztec!

    Hello Maseratti!!

    Posted by: Dom M on April 30, 2003 05:52 PM

21. It used to be that the folks at Lexus copied Germany. The new 7 and now 5 series has changed that trend. Now BMW is trying to look like a Lexus.

    The angry look of a BMW from the front is now replaced by Lexus LS-400 headlights. Have you seen who drives Lexus LS-400? 95% are wealthy senior citizens, they like that squishy feeling.

    Thank God the new 04 X5 looks good. But I think the 3 series is also doomed to get the same jelly look as well.

    Posted by: Faz on April 30, 2003 05:54 PM

22. Faz (#21), I would've been little more happy if BMW tried to copy Lexus. The rear end ("slanted up eyelash") is so Korean! Come on, I don't want to spend $50K and make people think I would've had similar look from a $15K car.

    Look how Mercedes did their redesign. Each redesign freshened up the look, but nobody would mistake a Merc for any other car. Similarly for Audi - though I don't think A8 is way too understated.

    I doubt anybody with negative feelings about new BMW is resisting change. It is just that we don't get the point of this stupid design change.

    Prime example of great change, IMO, is Nissan and Infiniti. Look at G35, FX45, Murano, Z350 and new Maxima. Actually, I would willingly consider spending money on FX45 than this BMW.

    Posted by: Babu on May 1, 2003 06:57 AM

23. When I first saw the new 7 series, I was very disappointed. As the owner of 2 previous 7's, I just wasn't sure I liked the new look. Like all things in life, change is hard to get use too. And since BMW has to design a car that will not change substantially in 10 years, it must be a huge task to undertake.
    I ended up buying the new 7 and put 20" M style wheels on it. Every time I go out at get into it I think that it is the most beautiful car on the road today. Change is good!
    Go buy that conservative, unwilling to take a chance Mercedes and Audi and be like everyone else. Boring and afraid to take a chance.
    

    Posted by: John on May 1, 2003 01:17 PM

24. I cannot believe that you would even think for a second that the new 5 looks like a Jap crap. I have always hated the cheap designs of Japanese cars; I love the new distinct look that the 5 series is offering us. It is BEAUTIFUL, I am going to wait until October to buy my own. I fell in love with this car from the first day I saw it. I can’t understand how someone can have such horrible taste in cars. You either are horribly old fashioned or you don’t have enough money to afford it and you just want to be a HATER. It’s alright your opinion doesn’t matter anyway because it will still be the top seller in it’s class. Praise the BMW fanatics BOO the HATERS ;)

    Posted by: Armen on May 2, 2003 03:45 PM

25. #24: Actually, I think calling this car "Jap Crap" is giving it undue credit ;-)

    Just because this has double kidney grill and the famous logo doesn't automatically make this good. I'm a BMW fanatic, but the only thing that holds me to BMW is the current 3-series' design. Especially the M3.

    Posted by: Babu on May 2, 2003 05:13 PM

26. i just want to know one thing. how much do you guys make?!!! I'm 25 years old and I bought a 93 5-series when I was 23 and I thought paying it off was pretty tough. I had a good job at the time too. You guys must be seriously loaded with some mad cash. I wanna join the club too!!

    Posted by: mark on May 3, 2003 09:48 AM

27. I think Tis BMW is made to compare & fight versus E-class & A6 & s-type & ...

    Posted by: zigoo on May 3, 2003 09:59 AM

28. You guys must be on hallusinogens. The new 5 series is the most beautiful mid size sedan on earth. The new 7 is the most beautiful full size sedan on earth. As a matter of fact every BMW is beautiful and out performs and outlooks any car in its class. I can't wait to get mine. Some of you people are truly tasteless and wouldn't know style if it bit you in the ass...

    Posted by: beemer on May 3, 2003 09:27 PM

29. The 2004 5-er is indeed unattractive and a further disappointment in BMW's design direction. It seems we're entering a dark period when it comes to car design. It's no surpise though when you consider how many people find SUV-styling to be satisfying. These are the same mass numbers of people who find BMWs new styling direction to be acceptable. Yes, BMW is selling more cars, but what the BMW-purists already know is that BMW is now appealing to the more design-challenged folks who previously would have considered a Lexus, Cadillac, or perhaps they're moving up from a Mitsubishi or Subaru. These new BMWs are not the ones we all group up with a love. No! These are the new souless breeds that are made sheerly to sell in volumes. And for those of us with the discrimination to recognize this, we will refrain from partaking in this new, most-indecent syndrome. Keep an eye out everyone, the new BMWs aren't being driven by people you would expect to drive BMWs - they're a new breed, similar to the SUV followers. And for us purists we despise them and we know they really are a different class trying to catch up.

    It seems UGLY is in! People want to be noticed, and the shock value of these new ugly BMWs keep people talking about them. The love of these new BMWs is no less disturbing than a woman falling in love w/serial killers in prison - it's a syndrome. And I hope it passes.

    Posted by: 2001-5-er on May 5, 2003 03:45 AM

30. I have been sitting here reading all of the comments, and to be perfectly honest alot of them just sound like "hating"! As someone earlier stated, the sales have declined and they need a new edge, the new design, in my opinion, fits the skematic of this day and age, not completely futurisric, but not all traditional either a little of both! I was getting tired of looking at the old five design--with just minor changes like the tail light color, I think the new five is eyes catching, sophisticated, innovative, and equipped to go up against Mercedes, and the other German companies. Is it that you all just don't like the car? Or, is it that you are upset b/c you may not be able to afford it? You opions are yours, and remember that--YOURS!

    Posted by: Ken on May 5, 2003 12:37 PM

31. I find it interesting that all the people who are saying they are going to buy a Lexus or Audi are on a BMW site.

    God knows you would never find me on a Lexus site!

    Remember the same company that makes that Lexus SC makes the Corolla! I believe the weakest car in the BMW line is the 3 series...which beats the best in most other car lines!

    Posted by: David on May 5, 2003 08:37 PM

32. The fact is, BMW is arrogant enough to think that we buy a BMW because it's a BMW. How many people each year will wag their tails to German arrogance just to be able to say "I drive a Bimer.."? These guys should be ashamed of themselves...

    Posted by: Eddie on May 8, 2003 06:26 AM

33. Hey, no one should be criticizing the new 5 until you see it in person and I don't know why people are even considering cracking on a Lexus. I own the new seven as well as the GS 430. And, truthfully, the drive on the 7 doesn't even compare the lexus and by far lexus is a more reliable car. I still love the BMW's and might consider the new 5 as well, I got to admit that Lexus makes some amazing driving cars.

    Posted by: Jason on May 9, 2003 03:21 PM

34. I've got to agree with you on the Lexus idea. I own a 2000 GS 300, a 2001 S430, and a 2002 BMW 530, and the lexus drives the best out of all of them in my opinion. I feel that Mercedes and BMW cars make their cars too heavy and with not enough horsepower. And on the 5-series, I think it's about time they changed, although I'm not happy about it because I own the current one, but it was about time. It's going to be a great lookin car in my opinion.

    Posted by: mark on May 9, 2003 03:26 PM

35. Dave...

    Not sure what you meant by the "bath" comment. I have no intention of selling my 2003 5 for the forseeable future. When that day comes, I have little doubt it will sell for more than the 2004.

    One year newer model will in no way offset the fact that, imho, Bangle's sedan designs will go down in Edsel history.

    Kia and Hundai invested some bucks in getting new thinking designers and improved their brand image by doing so.

    BMW adopting some of those design cues dilutes the brand in too many ways for me to describe.

    I just don't get it...after decades of tradition for things like the kidney grill being integrated with the hood how does one just do away with it? *shrug*

    Bottom line is I would not trade my 530 for the new style under any circumstances.

    Posted by: Robert on May 9, 2003 09:25 PM

36. We are all commenting on the styling of the 2004 5 series. How about performance? Isn't that what BMW is all about? I realize that you can't test drive one right now, but I'm convinced that BMW has retained, if not improved, on the 5 series performance. How about safety? Every year these cars get better-fact.
    BMW owners drive them, not only for their appearance, but for the excitement of the drive. BMW has maintained quiet elegance in all of it's models. For anyone that hasn't driven one, (or dares to compare it to one half it's price without driving it) your fooling yourself and others. Let's talk about what has, and always will be true. BMW is the Ultimate Driving Machine.

    Posted by: Linda on May 10, 2003 05:27 AM

37. I own a 323i, a 328i and a new Z4 - all great styles in my opinion...but what the heck is going on at BMW on the 5 series. They've stolen the front grille off a Pontiac Grand Am and slapped it on the new 5 series!! Then they designed the tail lights to look like an Accord or some other Asian-made car. My only hope is that the car looks better in person than it does on screen. If not I'll have to switch to Audi or MB.

    Posted by: TJ on May 10, 2003 10:04 PM

38. Abhominable! I've been a long time BMW-phile until now. After driving the outstanding prior two 5 series and seeing the direction they took with the new, runt-7 series and now even worse with the new 5 series, forget it. I bought a new 03 MBZ E500, a fine looking and excellently engineered car. MBZ hasn't traded in their design heritage. Maybe BMW can sell the new 5's to the same clients who drive the similar looking Z models! So long BMW!

    
    

    Posted by: AT on May 11, 2003 12:22 AM

39. Does anyone know what will the price be once the 5 Series hit the US market?

    Posted by: tiny TIM on May 11, 2003 04:16 PM

40. Does anyone know the colors of the 2004 5 series? I plan to buy a 2003 for the body, but (in a few years) don't want a dated color.

    Ben M, are you at a dealership within 50 miles of NYC?

    Posted by: Imani on May 11, 2003 11:29 PM

41. I think the new 5 series is a great looking car. The redesign is off the hook. I can't wait to test drive this new (UDM) Ultimate Driving Machine. Full speed ahead BMW you go!!!! Change is good was tried of the old 5 but it still looks good don’t get me wrong. But the new 5 looks even better plus with the 7 series technology can’t wait. Good Job BMW. OFF THE HOOK

    Posted by: jmoney on May 13, 2003 10:04 AM

42. A crime against humanity! A shameless abomination! There is good change and there is bad change. The new 5-series as well as the new 7-series are examples of bad change. Could they possibly have been more ugly!? I am sure that the new 5 is a technological marvel, I am sure it has phenomenal fit and finish, and I am sure it will drive and perform incredibilby. But, brother, it is one uuuugly car. First it started with the 7-series and its hideous front (those "eyebrows" are rediculous) and even more hideous back/trunk (were they on dope when they designed it?) And now, the 5-series: it looks like a Jap car from certain angles, and oh, horror of horrors, like a Korean car from other angles And like a pontiac in the grill. What's up with those wraparound tailights and the idiotic eybrows!? Potential sales success does not mean it is a good looking car. Jap cars are selling very well thank you. Think of it this way, it may now appeal to the lowest common denominator (scary thought): the Jap car buyer, oh and to those social wannabees that would buy anything with a BMW badge on it.

    Just because there was radical change does not make it good. You can take an engine and put it on a bucket with four wheels and that would indeed be change -that would be bad, ok.

    I presume that the people that would find this car attractive would be the same aesthetically challenged bunch that find the Aztek or the Element atractive.

    I make high six figures (divided by two, it's still six figures) and am driving a 540 (not a bragging statement, the point is I am the BMW demographic). And I have been a loyal BMW fan. I owned two 5 series and an MB CLK430. But, and BMW pay attention, when I get ready to switch it's not going to be to the new 5 or 7 series. Thank God that Audi and MB still have some sense in them.

    Posted by: tp on May 14, 2003 12:57 AM

43. LEXUS?!?! Ok.. Wait.. I "had" the Lexus GS400 and also have a 2000 740i short sport.. Let me say this.. If you really think there is a direct comparison between the two automakers, your either sniffing too much glue, or your diving head first into a mid life crisis.. In either case seek counceling.
    Truth is, admittedly by Lexus, these cars are radically different.. Sure the GS400 has some great off the start acceleration, and a comfortable ride, but pedal to the metal into an S curve against "any" BMW and see the grin on the face of the BMW driver as he leaves that Lexus in the dust. Can you say body roll...
    MB? sure maybe when I turn 50 and wear black socks with my shorts.. Cigar anyone?
    Audi.. Got to give them credit, although they still suffer from their past.

    In my closing I leave you with this.. For all of you that are so unsure about who you are and what BMW is.. GO CADILLAC !
    

    Posted by: Jack on May 14, 2003 12:14 PM

44. I too, am a bmw fanatic, like a lot of you posting comments here. I have owned BMWs for the past 12 years. I stumble across this site while researching about buying a new 5 or the forth-coming new 3. I think a lot of you are missing the point about the new bmw designs... Here is the way i see it... I would bet if you asked 1000 people who liked cars about a car like the current 2003 330i performance package, or the 2003 540i sport package, or the old 2002 740i sport package, 999/1000 would say "they like it, it is a beautiful car, and that it is very nice and they wish they would own one". There would be no doubt !!! Of course there will always be at least one dumb-ass who will say their Audi, Lexus, or Benz are prettier and better than Bimmers. Given that, I think the designers at BMW are screwing up here with these new designs. When something is beautiful, one don't have to try to like it, or adjust to it... it would be just great and beautiful from the start... There would be no doubt !!! Has anyone ever had to think about if the Grand Canyon or the Niagara Falls are beautiful. Does anyone ever have convince others that a 2003 Porsche 911 Turbo is awesome. You all know it, the new 7 series the new 5 series initial designs are disappointing and are failures. Let's hope they can make them look more graceful with mid-term fixes. And I pray they learn their lessons and don't screw up the 3 series. Hey, a $40,000 to $85,000 car should look beautiful to everyone !!!

    Posted by: a bit of reality on May 14, 2003 03:05 PM

45. Give credit to Chris Bangle for creating designs that have elicited discussion. Sadly, it has been at the price of beautiful aesthetics. I have always fallen in love with BMW's designs from the first spy photo I have seen, except for this latest batch. I was willing to be open-minded on the 7 until I saw it in person...I am still not sold. I was hopeful that the backlash would temper Bangle's designs for the 5...and I am deeply regretful that it has not.

    #42, I could not agree with you more. Apparently, BMW is not willing to give us the same loyalty we have given them over the years, and is more intent on pandering to the masses than cultivating their loyal following. If someone thinks this isn't worthwhile, consider the following:

    I recently owned both a 325Ci coupe and a 330Ci convertible. I am 30, and had looked forward to a long tradition of BMWs in my driveway. My next step was to be the new 5, but having seen the new design, I am now driving, very happily, a beautiful Audi. If you are a true BMW fan, you understand just how hard that decision was, but until the design team clears their head, I am afraid I have no option.

    By the way, does anyone else have a suspicion that Bangle's misguided pen was also responsible for the new Rolls-Royce Phantom? If you haven't seen it, consider yourself lucky...another proud brand whose tradition has been prostituted for the sake of novelty.

    Posted by: PEB on May 14, 2003 03:26 PM

46. After spending 7 years and 50 millions dollars on taillight R&D, they couldn't come up with anything else better so the new 5 series uses the taillight design from the 2002 Suburu WRX and the 1982 Toyota Celica coupe. Check them out...

    Posted by: stolen goods on May 14, 2003 03:28 PM

47. Bmw is a great company, but they need to fire who ever is on the design team for the new cars because they are messing up the companies image. The new 7 series looks great from the back and side, but what the hell happend to the fornt end. This new 5 looks like a pontiac for the front. I don't know what they are thinking.

    Posted by: Greg on May 14, 2003 08:42 PM

48. What Jack (#44) is right. Opinions are just opinions. However, I fail to understand when carmakers "poll" the public. Where are they getting the people? Nissan screwed up things with '96-'99 pathfinders when they put in big KNOBS on the "Automatic climate control" because they said people wanted to be able to change climate settings while wearing mitts. Who the #@$@ drives with Mitts on!?!?! Also, did "mitts" have to translate to KNOBS? How about larger buttons? They resisted until in 99, scapped this for a system with buttons. Saab recently decided not to offer navigation on the US release of the new 9-3, because most people said they do not want to buy navigation. The 9-3 navigation also happens to come with one of the coolest, easiest in-car phone system (as seen on euroupean models). I think this is where BMW is going wrong. BMW has had a large group of loyalists. When they design the cars, they should keep these folks in mind. For a design to be "new" and "innovative", it does not have to mean that it needs to be nothing like it has been. BMW isn't a car like Kia or Toyota, where radically different designs are necessary to gain customers. I think this is why some of the folks here are upset. Kia and Toyota needs the radical change sometimes to spark life into otherwise boring cars (and kudos to them), but a BMW (even the 9 year old current 5series) isn't a boring car. Like I said, an innovative design doesn't mean it needs to abandon everything already known. Picaso is supposed to be a great artist, and I don't disagree with that. Personally I wouldn't put a Picaso in my house even if I could afford it. I am afraid that the majority of the folks that I see driving the 745Li are 30-40something women with rich husbands. I see them going to the sports club across the street, and at the grocery stores. I am afraid that all they care is that people realize that they paid alot for the most expensive BMW available. I think it is these kind of people that the other "loyalists" dislike, and sadly, I have to agree, the newer designs of BMW seems to imply nothing else but that BMW has decided to care more for volume sales (sadly, the mass are not the most intelligent or artistic) than tradition.

    As for sales being better, anything with a BMW logo will sell better if it is replacing a 7-9year old design. You will always have the rich, tasteless folks who will pay money and buy things because they are "told" that it is good. For those people (and sadly, there are many), the new 5 and 7 series seems perfect...

    Posted by: Sage on May 15, 2003 12:33 PM

49. I laugh at you all calling yourself car "entusiasts" and then dismissing a car on looks alone..and from a picture alone no doubt.

    Car "enthusiasts" are not decorators...they are drivers.

    It is laughable that those of you who have strong opinions about the car and haven't actually; 1) seen one in person, 2) sat in one; and 3) driven one

    I suggest you should be should go to the Home and Garden site and leave the automobile sites to the real car enthuiasts.

    Posted by: Dave on May 17, 2003 08:34 AM

50. We are experiencing the peak/plateu of the BMW moniker. LUCKY US...

    The E34, E36 and earlier E2- series vehicles were simply superb as sales and resale prices of such vehicles attest, but the new 5 is just plain NASTY UGLY in this Bimmer Head's opinion. This car is doomed to a slow and arduous death similar to that of the 'new' 7 series, and the Z4 (yuck!) but hey, you have to understand that BMW is marketing to the same silly middleaged Baby Boomer generation that thinks aquasocks and palm pilots are "Cool." People who know better - read the trend setters who first made BMW's a demand object to the masses - will move on to brands who understand what consumers want. Top quality, awsome looks, a reasonable retun on investment, and a head turner that will stand out from all the Honda/Nissan/Toyota cookie-cutter models that clog the roads of this fine country.

    With any luck, the BMW design team will finally pull their collective heads out of their butts, lose Mr. Bangle et. al. and get back to the values that made them successful in the first place - and it wasn't ugly ass cars at an inflated price that make people look at you in traffic with that 'what was that fool thinking' look.

    - Loyal BMW owner of 5 fine Bimmers. Honolulu, Hawaii

    Posted by: Hawaii=an on May 19, 2003 02:29 AM

51. I am 28 and I have owned a 3-series and a 5-series... A life-long BMW lover, I am crazy about the 1998-2003 5-series generation. But I completely agree with the comment in this review that says "First they screwed the 7-series and then messed up Z4, but this new 5-series design one tops them all." I will be looking at the Audi or the Merc for my next purchase.. As for the resemblance with cheap American/Korean models, have a side by side look..
    http://autos.msn.com/vip/singleyear.aspx?modelid=3252&src=vip
    http://autos.msn.com/vip/futuremodel.aspx?familyid=201&pictureid=4&usage=image&src=vip
    What more can I say.. sorry BMW, it will take a lot for you to swing me back to your brand.

    Posted by: K Khan on May 19, 2003 10:53 AM

52. I have never owned a BMW.
    Could somebody please tell me
    why I would like to own a
    5 series BMW. I drive a Maxima now.

    Posted by: John on May 19, 2003 01:36 PM

53. Dave...

    Not to be patronizing...but an enthusiast is not just about driving either. It is a blend of all the senses and experiences.

    When I turn a corner and see my sparkly 5 series in the distance I just start smiling.

    When I chime the alarm after parking...I give it at least two backward glances.

    When I sit in the bolstered seats and breath in deeply and enjoy the leather from both a scent and touch frame of reference.

    When I drive, I whoop like a school boy playing dodge-ball when I get the DSC warning light to flash going around a turn.

    BMW is about all these things..it is about a logo that harkens back to an Airplane prop zipping though a blue sky. What do planes have to do with modern day BMWs? Not a damn thing..so why not change the logo?

    How long has the kidney grill been attached to the hood...I don't know..but a long damned time. Who the hell decided to change it? Some idiot.

    Who decided that BMW needed to raise the brand equity of Pontiac by emulating their front grill...some idiot.

    Who decided that Kia and Hundai had the right idea with their tail lights and that BMW should FOLLOW suit...some idiot.

    No...a BMW is not just about Performance...it is about Heraldry as well. I fully expect the new 5 to perform up to Brand expectations...but then again...engineers are in charge of that aren't they. Engineers are about numbers and if things don't work right, they know it and there is no arguing.

    Deigners live in the world of the subjective, where the only handhold is that of your Brand and the expectation of the loyal. Bangle has betrayed the trust he's been given for some fanciful jaunt into revolutionary change.

    He needs to work for Kia...or maybe he does.

    Posted by: Robert on May 19, 2003 09:59 PM

54. BMW design members are not the only ones that have their head up an ass, I say those idiot BMW execs also have their heads up the same hole. Lack of oxygen will do it to you ! How else can one explain what has happened to the look of the 5s, even after all the negative feedbacks from the 7s. Maybe there were big investments from Korea and Japan... Those boys from Kia and Toyota have mucha bucks !!! How the hell else can one explain it... Controversial decisions can always be traced back to money and power !!!

    Robert, you got it right. It was the combination of looks, feels, beauty and driving that makes BMW special. I've never heard anyone say Bimmers were ugly until the new 7s, now the poor 5s caught the disease.

    Posted by: a bit of reality on May 20, 2003 02:46 AM

55. I'm 23 and currently have a 2001 Audi S4 and have recently been looking in to getting either the 2004 Audi S4, M3 or 5 series. Though I agree with the typical car enthusiast that looks aren't everything.... the new 5 series really is one hell of an ugly car - and I got to see it in person. I was a big fan of the previous 5 series body type so this really is quite a disappointment.

    Just helped make my decision a little easier.

    Posted by: Neil on May 20, 2003 02:44 PM

56. Maybe you guys should read a review from someone who actually has seen and driven the vehicle. It might shut some of you whiners up!

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/100112/article.html

    Posted by: Dave on May 20, 2003 07:21 PM

57. http://www.thetorontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1052251582019&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196

    Here is another fantastic review.

    Posted by: dave on May 20, 2003 07:23 PM

58. Opinions are lack a-holes....every has one.
    So here's mine....

    I personally don't like the back of the new 7, nor the trunk of the new Z. (By the way I own a Z3 for my summer vehicle.)

    However, I can appreciate the new stylings of both and know that when a design is innovative it takes some time to get used to. (And I would gladly take an even trade for a z4 for my z3).

    As far as the 5, I don't think it is radically different...just enough to modernize it. I never thought the old 5 was good looking anyway, I always preferred the looks of the 3.

    I loved the look of G35 when it came out. In just one year it bores me. At least both the 7 and Z4 have grown on me somewhat over the last year. That is what I hear from alot other of others too.

    The bottom line is sales. Everyone keeps harping on Bangles designs, and that they "bought their last BMW.

    Well someone is buying them, that is for sure! The new design 7 and z4 outsold the previous models by almost 50 percent. If they were that ugly sales would of decreased by 50% not increased. You'd never know it from the complaining in here!
    

    Posted by: dave on May 20, 2003 07:37 PM

59. About the review links posted above - I rarely have seen any mainstream automotive journalist criticising any BMW/MB adventure. Even the criticism for iDrive (which, by the way, completely renders muscle-memory useless and there by more dangerous to use while driving) had been very subdued.

    
    I think the loss of integrated grill has made Z4 and 5 series look like Adolf Hitler.

    Quite frankly, I think for this 5-series design, a 140hp I-4 engine is all that is appropriate! If it is only driving pleasure, 2004 Maxima and upcoming I35 are good choices. If you don't mind slightly smaller car, G35 is a great choice. Better looking cars, with great driving pleasure - not as great as BMWs, but you get saner looks, close enough driving pleasure for 3/4 the price.

    Posted by: Babu on May 21, 2003 05:53 AM

60. Babu,

    I am not really sure how one can compare a car's look to Adolf Hitler??? I will ignore that comment and assume that you are more intelligent that that.

    The new Maxima, is a little to "Asian" looking for me. Those lights are tacky, both front and back. Just an updated Altima.

    As far as mainstream journalists not criticizing BMW "adventure"...there is a reason for that. Because BMW is a superior car.

    I wonder if you even read the reviews? These journalists who are consider among the foremost both rave about the driving experince, which you nor I have had the pleasure of.

    G35 are a dime a dozen, and getting tired fast! Moreover, the G35 does not offer adaptive headlights, bluetorch technology, active steering, ever run tires etc...the G35 offers no new innovative technology as far as I have read.

    The Idrive does not have to be used at all if you read the articles, both HVAC and sound can be operated manually. Morever, Idrive type systems will be in all medium to high end cars within 10 years...offering integrating internet acesses, email etc...that is a given it is already in the works for all major car companies..you should do your homework.

    As far as other cars being 2/3 the price, is that a factor when discussing how good an automobile is? Does a GT2 have to be 30 times better to be a Cavalier to be a great car...not really sure what you are getting at?

    Posted by: Dave on May 21, 2003 06:15 PM

61. Dave - I've no issues with BMW's performance or driving quality. I feel a bit disappointed that such superb engineering had to be packaged in such a unremarkable and "me-too" skin. This design is too Asian for me! So, why not get an Asian car with Asian looks and Asian engineering instead of driving this one?

    I'm not picky about the price. For me, BMWs are BMWs because of driving experience, fit and finish, overall engineering, and classy teutonic looks. In short, some thing every other car manufacturer wants to be.

    When I look at a car, I need to feel a pull from my heart to appreciate it. Well, when you see a car passing by, it is usually the exterior design and the poise with which it moves that is visible. Designs of all BMW's during late 1990s were works of art.

    Take the new 7 series. I don't likes its looks. However, it certainly looks very graceful and sure-footed when you see it in motion. Lot more "confident look" than the earlier 7 series. However, when not in motion, this doesn't look as majestic - especially from the rear. Personally, I think the front-grille is too short (height) for its size.

    Now, the new Z4 is very good from front, when in motion. From the rear, it looks too light, like a toy-car. Standing still, especially if you see the sides, it is horrible.

    About this looking like Adolf Hitler: I think it has to do with the grille being separate from the hood. The line makes it look like Hitler's moustache and lip, if he is hung upside down :-)

    I guess I'm way too used to seeing integrated grille and hood - especially the smooth curve at the front. Instead of the current abrupt line.

    The new MB E-class is very classy. Nobody would doubt it for anything other than teutonic. Audi A6 has that teutonic look too. However, once I drive a new 5 series, I guess I would have lot of trouble buying an E-class. MBs simply don't drive like BMW. I'm in early 30s. I guess that leaves A6 (or S6) as perfect German car for me - though its design is beginning to look outdated.

    Posted by: Babu on May 22, 2003 09:43 AM

62. hmmm... never thought new grill looks like hitler. looking at z4, i think it does look like him.

    Posted by: mr.bimmer on May 22, 2003 10:06 AM

63. Dave,

    I applaud your efforts to defend the car you put a deposit on and to prove to everyone that it is a good car.

    BUT - regardless, this discussion is simply about the new design of the 2004 5 series.... and it's ugly in many peoples opinion. Just deal with it, you don't have to challenge each individuals opinion.

    As TP noted above - following anything just because BMW sticks a badge on it is class-less.

    For those bashing on the ride of an MB, I have a 2003 AMG SL 55 and that drives better than any BMW I have ever owned. Try driving an AMG before you bash. I also own an M5, and an Audi S8.

    Posted by: Mike on May 22, 2003 11:05 AM

64. More pictures here: http://www.bmw545.com/#realpics

    Posted by: Babu on May 24, 2003 04:17 PM

65. Dave, as with Mike, I applaud your efforts to defend your new car. But like I said before, it used to be 99% of the people loved the way BMWs looked, but now, when you drive your new baby down the road, just accept the fact that 50% of the people will not envy you, rather they will think who is that dumb soul who bought that expensive ugly car just because it is a new BMW. From a depreciation perspective... your new 5 is going to take a dive from the start. It sure won't have the resell values and popularity as past Bimmers. I haven't seen the 545 sport package yet, so I still have a little glimpse of hope that they have done miracles to make at least that car look good. And mechanically and electronically, I can almost guarantee you will have a hell of a time with your version 1.0 iDrive software for the 5 series, just ask the first group of 7 series owners who hated life with their cars. Like Microsoft software, wait for a more mature release or for BMW software service packs. I have a 2000 X5 4.4 and I am still living with buggy electronics even without the shitty iDrive. Like BMW said, iDrive is a concept. I think it should have stayed that way. The current BMW implementations will get people kill messing around with it on the road !!!
    And don't get me talking about their premium sound systems. The Japanese sound systems blows the Germany's doors off !!!

    Posted by: a bit of reality on May 25, 2003 03:34 AM

66. The bottom line is you guys know sh-t- all.

    I bring something informative to the room...links to actual car reviews.

    You offer I don't like the way it looks, never buy a BMW....whah, whah, whah.

    I have read 5 car reviews of EXPERTS who are the tops of their field. Of which, there are 2 links above to their reviews. All the reviews have been excellent.

    As far as the I-Drive, if you actually read the article... You don't need to use the Idrive system at all, you have the option of using all the devices manually like any other car. However, I can tell you I looking forward to retireving my email in my car.

    Many of my friends and associates make 7 figures a year...and yet drive 1 or 2 cars. I am amazed how many people in here drive 4 and 5 cars.....or maybe they are just full of sh-t. Probably the later. Which would explain why they would put down a car they obviously can't afford....a little short man sydrome/pen-s envy/wish they were more succesful thing going on. To translate ... No one believes you.

    As far as comparing Japanese cars to German ones, I have to laugh again. Just for those of you who don't pick up a business section, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan's biggest shareholders are GM and Ford....say no more. The only thing Japan had going for them was a cheap yen, so they could sell a cheap vehichle...that is why they are deathly afraid of the rising yen. The yen is rising over 116 US....let's see how the compete now.

    As far as Hitler is concerned. His vehicle of choice for him and his SS was the Mercedes.

    Posted by: Dave on May 25, 2003 09:21 PM

67. Dave...

    Whoa...relax buddy...take a xanax.

    We are all BWM enthusiasts here. IMHO, you really have to come to grips with one basic fact.

    Like with art, you don't have to "know sh-t-" as you so eloquently put it, to make comments about design and styling.

    Fact: New 5 departed from integrated hood while rounding the kidney grill -- some folks, myself included, don't like that direction.

    Fact: New 5 added sloping "cats eye" lenses to the front headlamps which are reminicent of some Pontiac headlights.

    Fact: New 5 added sloaping taillamps which are remincient of Kia and Hundai.

    Conjecture: New 5 will have significant software issues as evidenced by your own link in which the ASC broke twice on the test car and could not be fixed during the test run.

    Opinion: I don't think folks posting here have salary envy and I'm betting that most can afford the 5. No one really is bashing the vehicle, rather the complaints are almost universally around the design. With some minor concerns about people fiddling with i-drives while the go careening into someone.

    I think "bit o reality" had an intersting point about depreciation and resale value. If the pool of interested BMW buyers is reduced do to a dislike of the design elements, the value of the vehicle will likewise not be bouyed as was the case in previous models.

    My guess is that BMW will notice this rather rapidly when cars enter their certified pre owned program and they find that people are willing to shell out the same money for a 2003 as they would for a 2004.

    My prediction...The 5 will be redesigned by 2008 and will be missing 1) angled headlamps, 2) Angled Taillamps, 3) quirky trunk angles, but will regain its Integrated oval kidney grill.

    Finally...I sat turning my head at a sharp angle whilst looking at the straight on shot of the new 5....HOLY CRAP...it does look like Hitler. ;-P

    ta,
    rwr

    Posted by: Robert on May 26, 2003 10:31 PM

68. whoaa dave come down.... BMW builds great cars.. the new designs are a little strange.. Personally i like the current model of the 5 series and the last model 7 series. it gives bmw a more classic but yet sporty look. i have no clue what Chris Bangle is thinking man.. you have never heard of this much complain of the past BWM designs except that some might think they are getting old or something. i'm a 18 year old and seriously all my friends like the past models more than the upcoming one. The Z4 looks pretty tight though but the new 7 is too much of a space shuttle. i reallie hope the X3 activity comes out looking better than the concept. the x5 in my opinion is one of the nicest suv on the road. and dave i wouldn't say japanese cars suck.. japanese people do build cheaper vehicles compare to euros but jap cars do not suck. honda probably builds one of the BEST engines in the world (can you say V-TECH???). NEXT TIME BEFORE YOU GO OFF ON A PARTICULAR COMPANY PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH. for the price of an audi A4 3.0 you can get a TL type S loaded with everything and plus it outperforms the audi 3.0. but overall i still prefer bimmers, they gotta do some re-thinkin of the designs though..

    Posted by: mike on May 27, 2003 01:43 AM

69. Just to start off with RWR all your comparisons of the body stylings to other cars are not facts, they are opinions, you are obviously not an attorney or you would know the difference.

    As far as your predictions, I don't really care.

    I don't understand why if you don't like the car, and you still feel you must state your egocentric opinion then why not just say "I don't like the car", then leave.

    A cars' looks are obviously subjective, some will like it some will not. To me how someone buys an Aztec is beyond me, but I respect that some like it, and certainly would not go to a chat forum and continually tell them how ugly it is.

    For those of us that actually do like the car and would like to talk to others who also are, this is a great forum to share links and information as it comes out from the manufacturer and road tests.

    Those of us who are actually interested in purchasing the vehicle are confident in our own opinions of the car and really don't care about your ongoing opinions on its looks.

    If you have some intelligent factual information about the vehicle great I'd love to hear it. But if you just want to keep commenting on your "opinion" of the looks of the car...then they are already stated for the record and you obviously have nothing new to bring to the table.

    
    

    Posted by: Dave on May 27, 2003 06:14 PM

70. Mike:

    To answer your reply I never said Japanese cars "suck". I would never use that "word".

    What I did say is:
    1) US automakers are the largest shareholders of the big 3 Japanese automakers. Further, many of their vehichles are made in Canada and the US...and we know how well American made vehiles are.
    2) That Toyota, Lexus, and Honda will have trouble competing if the yen continues to rise. ie. that same TL that is 25k US now could be 40k relatively soon.

    As far as Chris Bangle, my young 18 year old friend...he will make more this year then you will for the rest of your life...so he must have something going for him.

    Posted by: Dave on May 27, 2003 06:31 PM

71. Anyone who is interested to see how the so called "disgusting" 7 series has "hurt" BMW sales over the last year can go this site.

    http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/March-2003/March-2003-3/March-19-03-p9.htm

    Geez, "The BMW 5 Series...Sales of 172,323 vehicles in 2002 were only 11.1% below the previous years level"

    Hmmm... and the "the new BMW 7 Series in the first full year of production were approximately 4% better than that achieved by the predecessor model in the equivalent period"

    So for those of you a little slow on the uptake. The 7 series which everyone hates went up 4% in sales...and the old style 5 series which everyone loves went down 11.1%.

    LOL...guess Bangles job is safe...glad you guys aren't running one of my companies!

    Posted by: dave on May 27, 2003 06:45 PM

72. Just saw a picture of the new 5. In a word awesome. Do you know what price it is going to come in at?

    Posted by: Jim_boston on May 27, 2003 08:32 PM

73. I too love the 5. I always found BMWs to be a little boring looking although I have heard they drive extremely well. First the first time, I am actually consdiering buying a BMW. Does anyone know the release date in the US?

    Posted by: TomG on May 27, 2003 08:44 PM

74. Here is a review of it.

    http://www.motoring.iafrica.com/driving_impressions/235083.htm

    Posted by: robert on May 27, 2003 08:58 PM

75. Dave -

    You are a 50 year old no-body, never will be anybody, who is pissed off because people don't like the design of a car that you just put a deposit on. The E60 5 series looks UGLY - deal with it.

    And get off your high horse because it is hardly out of anyones price range... especially people who were interested enough to do research on the model and find this site.

    And just because your pathetic, delusional ass requires a URL for someone to state an opinion... here you go.

    http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02012541&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1268737&record=4

    Guess Bangle realized he had some design flaws... when will your stupid ass get it.

    - Nick

    Posted by: Nick on May 27, 2003 11:04 PM

76. The New 5 is scheduled to go on sale in the U.S. this fall (I've heard November) for the 530i with the 525i and 545i coming shortly after that. That probably means very early 2004. I've read the prices will a few thousand U.S. dollars higher than the current lineup.

    I had a '76 530i, a '91 525i, and now have a '98 528i. In all instances I initially preferred the "old" style to its replacement, but eventually I preferred the "new" style. After about 5 years, though, even the "new" style started looking dated and old, and the same is true of the soon-to-be-departed E39.
    
    Few cars look good from all angles and in all colors, but from the pictures I've seen, the new 5 looks great in dark colors especially.

    What really matters is how the 5 Series drives, however, and each incarnation gets better and better by leaps and bounds. Considering the improvements between my '91 and '98, and how the new 7 seemed to magically defy its size and mass when I drove one, I fully expect the new 5 to be nothing short of spectacular. I can't wait for a test drive. The best quote I've read about BMW handling is, "A maneuver that in another car is a matter of speculation, in a BMW becomes a matter of limbic certainty." That sums up the handling and confidence driving one better than I could hope to say. What I can say with certainty is that I can't imagine owning anything other than a 5 if I were allowed to have only one model of car for the rest of my life (and I'm only 40, so I hope I have a lot of life left!)

    And looking at the styling of Bimmers all the way back to the Dixie and 328, there are no design elements or styling cues that have not changed over time---evolution of design is compulsory if a company that sells a product evoking so much emotion is to survive.

    Posted by: Brent on May 27, 2003 11:42 PM

77. Folks, there might be people who like the look of new BMWs like Dave. That is his opinion, respect it and please don't call him names.

    On a side note though, my server logs indicate that comments #72, #73 and #74 by jim_boston, tomg and robert respectively are all from the same machine as dave's - which makes me wonder if dave has a group of BMW fans sharing the same machine or he prefers to change his name every few minutes :-) Ah, the beauty of the web - I can be Clint Eastwood on a forum, can't I? Oh wait, let me be Chris Bangle instead - ROTFL.

    Guys, this is only a car. A BMW, but still a car. The fact that it invokes such passion should be music to BMW executives. May be they should try to figure out a way to prevent that passion from turning into frustration.

    I recently saw the spy photos of 2005 3 series. It seems to have split deck like 7 series. The grill is not that different from current 3 series, but more curved at the lower bottom corners. The head lamp assembly is very narrow - think Mazda 6. The car is much bigger than the current 3 series. Lot of scope to put bigger wheels :-)

    Posted by: Babu on May 28, 2003 06:27 AM

78. This should be interesting:

    http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/0,,1369-1372_1321336,00.html

    A BMW minivan!

    Posted by: Babu on May 29, 2003 10:03 AM

79. In a year or so all of you guys won't have a negative impression about the new 5 it will definately grow on people. People please relax it only gets better in person, and when it does pass you guys on the highway, you all will be hunked at by senior citizens in the right lane driving the E class and the A6

    Posted by: hevv on June 1, 2003 09:12 PM

80. Here are another great review, seems like everyone who drives the car loves it.

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tw/045series.htm

    Posted by: Dave on June 2, 2003 06:27 PM

81. Hmmm...well I think most of my facts were, indeed, facts and I proceeded to state opinions based on those facts. For example, it is a fact that the new 5 does NOT have a kidney grill integrated with the hood.

    To the point about continually picking on the new 5's design. I have not sought out a 5-series fan site or forum and started shooting negative comments. If anything, the owner of this site sets the tone with his/her opinion that the new 5's styling is horrible.

    I think a diversity of opinion is welcome and refreshing, however, if I were to restrict any opinion, it would be those who "like" the design, given that the initial intent of this forum seems to be to provide a venue for folks to vent about the horrible design changes made by Der Bangle.

    ta,
    rwr

    Posted by: Robert on June 2, 2003 10:30 PM

82. Ok...I get it. I'm terribly sorry. Someone slipped acid in my cocktail when I approved the designs for the new 5 series.

    I am already reworking the 7 series to remove my horrible mistakes and will get to the 5 series early next year.

    Dave--thanks for the support, but I can't afford to send you the checks anymore, BMW has cut my salary.

    I'm sorry...I'm so so Sorry.

    =CB=

    Posted by: Chris Bangle on June 2, 2003 10:41 PM

83. Here's a shot of E60 - why couldn't they keep the rear like shown here?

    http://bmwheaven.bmwsport.net/news/e60/e60_rear.jpg

    Now checkout the rear of the wagon model.

    http://bmwheaven.bmwsport.net/news/e60/e60_touring.jpg

    I think it looks like an inflated and stretched VW Golf.

    Posted by: Babu on June 3, 2003 06:28 AM

84. i really don't know where you guys get performance in some bmw's. i'm sure the m's and 3 series are fine. but i own a 5 series and that thing can't take turns worth crap. and this forum is about the new 5 series and here people are talking about s-turns and performance. puh-leez. my 5 series almost tips on s-turns and quite frankly, it's performance sucks major ass.

    Posted by: Dude on June 7, 2003 02:17 AM

85. comment 82:
    haha that was funnie..but yeah the new stylin is strange.. i still like the current BMW.. The current BMW 5 series with an M kit looks sweet....

    Posted by: Mike on June 11, 2003 04:04 AM

86. #84, you know what?...you better go get fix on your turing before you complain about your 5 series turns

    Posted by: a on June 11, 2003 04:26 AM

87. Whoever wrote this article is on crack, this car looks awesome. The old 5's did too, but it was definitely due for a makeover.

    Posted by: BMWer on June 27, 2003 11:53 AM

88. the redisigned 7 and 5 series are love or hate designs. Those who dislike the new designs tend to favor the current styling, which is by all accounts classic. However, those like myself who appreciate the new designs see it for what it is ... cutting edge, innovative, and futuristic. It's definitely an approach that grows on you. Successful business relies only partially on the past, and rather predominantly on the future. I believe this is what BMW designers have done, and they are correct in doing so. The current 5 series design is how old? You've had plenty of time to appreciate it. And if that's what appeals to you then great - buy one. As for me, I'll have a black on black 2004 parked in my garage as soon as it's available. To each his own.

    Posted by: jason wroth on June 29, 2003 01:01 PM

89. I think the only problem I have with the 2004 5 series are the tail-lights. That slanted-upwards triangle look really rubs me the wrong way.

    I've never owned a bmw before, and I'm looking to buy my first one. I must say that when I first saw the current 3 series, i had absolutely no complaints. As of now I was considering either an M3, the new 5, or if I wait a little longer the new 3 (hopefully it'll still look wonderful). Tough decision though... I'm 23 now, been a bmw fan all through college and will probably be buying their cars for years to come.

    What do you guys recommend? Here are some thoughts on my current choices:
    1. M3 - Wonderful car, love it in every way. Only concern is that the new 3 is coming out in ~1.5 years. If it looks a lot better, I'll kick myself.
    2. 2004 5 - Looks like a great car, but the tail lights are iffy. I'm sure it'll "grow" on me but I want the same feeling I got when I first saw the current 3 series.
    3. 2005 3 - Would be willing to wait till then to get it if it looks good, but what if its a flop? I keep hearing that it'll have similar headlights to the x3 (yuck!). If it does look terrible, I would have wasted 1.5 yrs of waiting for nothing! By then, the M3 will have an "outdated" look, and the new 5 will still have it's slanted tail lights.

    Argh I don't know which to go for. I still think my safest bet is to just get the current M3. Any ideas?

    Posted by: Fishy15 on July 1, 2003 01:26 PM

90. For all you so called "haters" of the new five design why don't you go by the new E class or audi or better yet a mini van or Cadillac eldorado. Leave the driving for those who like sporty looks and fun designs

    Posted by: ra on July 1, 2003 04:09 PM

91. ...for those of you who put deposits on the new 5 --Rock On..Its very nice, but wont appeal to the 80 year olds who drive the current models who want to hold on to the past....

    Posted by: ra on July 1, 2003 04:13 PM

92. You guys seriously need to look beyond the exterior, hey It might look a little different, but change is good. The interior and all the new features are amazing. Seriously, every car is going to be even a little contreversial, but I mean... dude the cars not out yet.. just wait till you see it with your own two eyes instead of just in pictures. The BMW designers were really genious though, they had to change it.. and i think they made the right choice. If people want to stop liking the car just because it looks a little different, they can go ahead. But really what is a car for? TO get around.. and really.. Im sure that it's going to drive like no other.

    Posted by: nee la on July 2, 2003 02:51 AM

93. it looks terrible. and if someone wants a car just TO GET AROUND, then buy a geo metro or toyota echo. better yet, buy a toyota hylux, like the ones used in afghanistan.

    Posted by: osama on July 3, 2003 05:33 AM

94. In November 2001, I saw the new 7 and promptly purchased a 2001 740il sport. The dealer I purchased it from said that there was a spike in sales on the '01's. I wonder if the same thing will happen with the current 5? The new five isn't as grotesque looking as the 745i, but to me it looks too chunky and the front looks like a cross between an Altima and any Pontiac, sometimes too much change isn't good. Aren't they already redesigning the front and back of the 7?

    Posted by: GC on July 5, 2003 04:19 PM

95. Some people are such huge bmw fans that they are not able to evaluate the new 5 objectively. Forget about the name "BMW" for a minute and just look at the car! You don't see a Pontiac Grand Am there? You don't see the Japanese styling? These aren't opinions. I guess you'd have to see side-by-side photos to come to this realization. bmw screwed up on this one. Let's face it, without the signature grill and headlights, a beemer would look like any other car on the road. So what does bmw do to the new 5? They get rid of the one thing that makes their cars unique and butcher the rest of the body! The new 5's will really get lost in the crowd now. When you spend $50K+, you want something that at least makes an attempt at being distinct. You'd have to throw racing slicks on the rear and bull horns on the hood to get noticed in this thing. The new 5 is a Pontiac Grand Am (front), Kia Rio (rear) and Lexus (side) all rolled into one! If you walk outside of the "I must be loyal to bmw" box, you will see that the new design is a change for the worst.

    Posted by: rob on July 6, 2003 02:27 AM

96. i agree, it looks terrible. i'm telling you, you won't see any 5 series in afghanistan.

    Posted by: osama on July 8, 2003 04:04 AM

97. I actually like the rear of the 7 and its front looks a bit sad. many of my friends, including an artist, are in total love with the Z4, it is diff from any other car, it left the class and can no longer be compared to the mazda. as with the current 5, i never thought it more than ordinary, but now i am growing quite fond of it. the new 5 though, at the best angle and with the best lighting condition still is a tad shy. the E class is so elegant and nimle-looking. I hope the new 5 has more features that are standard, because in 4% increase in price (told by a salesman) better be worth something, i don't think people want to pay even a penny more for somehting that is so odd-looking. I understand that perhaps they are trying to make the 5 more "striking," maybe more formidible, but when you add a pontiac, a kia and a lexus side, it looks strange and since all are cropped from other low-end, everywhere cars, the new 5 ends up even more ordinary looking, let's hope that the real thing is as pretty as some of the (nicely prepared) official pictures, because other-wise, goodbye 5

    Posted by: Peter on July 9, 2003 11:56 PM

98. Dave, you are talk too mussshh.. the 5 series looks like a grand am, but still, its one of the sickest cars ever... any body no the exact price?

    Posted by: James on July 10, 2003 01:35 PM

99. The new 545 what a beautiful car. The sharp line's the disinct styling . It's class in every form . This will be my next BMW There is no way that this car looks like your average 15k car. It looks like a 50k + car

    Posted by: Diane on July 12, 2003 09:28 AM

100. Currently i drive a 2002 audi a3 (150bhp) cause i didnt afford a 3 series at that time. But that is change now and i decided to skip to the next "level" so I actually went for a testdrive with the new 530i. It felt nice, the new ASC is brilliant and there can be no complain for the interior desing or ergonomics. Including the iDrive that some people are talking badly about. It does requier some brain muscle flexes but it gives a lot of information and settings to choose from.

     Regarding the style, i accepted the new desing unconditionally and, before starting this internet reserch, i never heard a negative opinion from anyone i came across with. However, reading all the 101 comments posted above made me reconsider my new aquisition. I have to say that i did found the back of the car a little strange when i first sow the pictures and now i understand why: it really is!

     In exchange, i liked the front end (whit a shade of doubt about the curved headlights) from the begining. I liked the V shape bonnet that continues on the spoiler resembling a F1 racecar. That was the reason i decided to skip the more sportly 3 series that i think it suits me (i'm not 30 for the next 4 months).

     In the end i came to a conclusion: i have to redo my homework before deciding on my new car. You people made me do that and i thank you. The decision will still be mine to make but it will be based on more informations.
     

     Posted by: ovidiu on July 12, 2003 04:24 PM

101. my 5 series can't turn worth crap nor can it accelerate worth crap. it's nothing close to "the ultimate driving machine." the ride is bumpy yet almost tips on turns, the acceleration sucks major ass, the back dashboard makes sounds, i'm telling you, the 5 series is a joke. A JOKE. i drove an m3 and it's much much better. avoid the 5 series, any 5 series, like the plague. you don't get squat worths of performance.

     Posted by: osama on July 15, 2003 12:42 AM

102. I am a BMW Client Advisor (I sell BMW's for a living) - You people all need to take a look around you. Are you looking? Good! Here's the thing - Nobody really gives a shit about any of this. It's not important. They're only car for God's sake. They all end up in the junkyard. Donate your time to something worthwhile. Be a big brother. Give blood. Volunteer to help somebody but please do something else. Have a great and meaningful life.

     Posted by: Stephen J. Lounello on July 16, 2003 02:37 PM

103. You're probably only saying that because you're fortunate enough to have what we all want - a nice car. I hate people like you. You criticize us for wanting something - something YOU have - and you don't appreciate your luxury.

     Posted by: osama on July 17, 2003 02:37 AM

104. Stephen,
     Although those are all worth while activites, I couldn say the same to you. Instead of surfing the internet and finding this site, couldn't you of spent the time volunteering in a food bank. Hell, quit your job as a BMW advisor and volunteer full time.
     Moreover, if you are truly a BMW sales advisor I would never buy a car from a person that obviously doesn't respect the passion for that product. You must hate your job! Not that I believe you are an advisor.

     Anyways, I just want all you 5 series bashers who were beating me up earlier that after hearing that the BMW that I would get in October would not have the options of my choice I decided to ditch the 2004 5er, and buy a 2003 7 series.

     I still say the 5 series will be a beautiful car, but they had sweet deals on 745s and for 10k more I got a lot more car.

     Posted by: Dave_Toronto on July 24, 2003 08:22 PM

105. i just found out that my 5 series has a GM transmission. Can you believe that? Yup, the mechanic raised my car up in the air, we walked underneath and he pointed it out. How in the world did BMW put a General Motors transmission in a 1993 5 series? I heard also that it's not just mine, but other 5 series as well. So, for all you 5 series fans out there, look out, it might be a GM tranny instead. Oh well, 5 series are boats anyways. Go with a 3 series so it can perform better in the turns.

     Posted by: osama on July 27, 2003 11:44 PM

106. hey... #6... Babu?!I just thought that I should correct you.... well the current 7 series has NOT out sold the elder 7 in reality people are actually buying the old 7 used because the current 7 is too complicated and/or the styling is bolky and not sleek like the older one.. so I hope that the "faced-lifted" 7 is more sleek next year or the year after. A person cant say that the current 7 is a totally beautiful car, you see it come and you say, what a nice car..... but you see it gop and you say.. why would they mess up the back of that car like so??!

     Now on to the Z4, as everyone knows is an awesome car. But sorry to say #6... BABU it hasnt out sold the Z3 AT ALL! it is actually far from it and they are trying to sell them but they just wont. The Z3 sold like crazy but for some reason it is just not doing so with the Z4 which is a shame because it is a wonderful car.

     oh and BABU>> #6 ... It is nice to hear that you bought the five... which engine did you get, I am glad people like this car so that bmw wont truely go down the drain.

     Posted by: Rufus on July 29, 2003 12:12 PM

107. I was over in Europe last week and got the chance to see the new 5 series. O what a beautiful car! it looks stuning in real life and I realllllllllyy want to have one sitting in my own garage. who knows that jsut may happen;)

     Posted by: Brian on July 29, 2003 12:25 PM

108. Would you all please stop calling this new BMW 5 series ugly?! if you really want to see an ugly car.. just look at the new infiniti SUV!!!!!!!!!!!!! ICK!

     Posted by: Ron A. on July 29, 2003 12:30 PM

109. *Sigh* 106-108 are from the same guy :-)

     Posted by: Babu on July 29, 2003 05:28 PM

110. Here is a real question. Does Dinamic Drive worth 3k or not?

     Posted by: ovidiu on July 31, 2003 01:51 PM

111. the new 545i IS FLAWLESS IN IT'S DESIGN. I bought the current 5 series when i was 19 years old, and i am looking forward to buying the 2004 model when i am 22.

     Posted by: tex on August 1, 2003 05:10 PM

112. 2004 5 series. Does anybody have a site for new 2004 pricing for the five series?
     Tks,
     Dennis

     Posted by: dennis on August 5, 2003 09:50 PM

113. BMW 7 series is a master piece, a work of art in terms of design, performance and technology. Some people are true here, it didn't have those pretty looks which dies off easily but at the second glace anyone can fall for it. I started to respect bimmers and started seeing it as combination of luxury and sports after this particular model. People critisizing this car truly lack the taste ( and ofcourse money), or shall i say ' The Grapes are Sour', wishing them to be wealthy enough to afford it. Wish You Luck Babu.

     Posted by: CoolJack on August 6, 2003 10:58 AM

114. I'm from Panama...look ..everyone who says that the new 5er its ugly should cut his tongue..Oh my god...three days ago I was in Bavarian Motors Panama and they said that they have a 5er hidden..in the building...well..I asked everybody do you test it here all ready? and everybody said no:-(..then I asked to one of the mechanics Can I see it? and he said no because the car's launch it's on august 28 and I and I said oh..OK...then I was talking to a mechanic that..but this time that mechanic was very nice and he said to me Do you yo want to see it? and I said YES of course!:-)....then he said follow me....we enter to the building...when I saw the new 5er I just coud say 3 words....Oh my god ....It was the most beutiful car I ever seen..I loved it ...One thing it's seing it in a photo or some video and OTHER thing it's seing it in front of you whith that sporty and classy look...well I dare to say that that car looks much better than any Bimmer(we are talking about sedans not convertibles, coupes,etc..)

     Posted by: Grof on August 6, 2003 08:09 PM

115. it's still ugly, no matter what you say. how can i believe someone who claims the new 5 series is good looking when they (ahem, grof) can't even spell beautiful correctly?! you obviously aren't educated so therefore you cannot afford a bmw.

     Posted by: osama on August 7, 2003 02:29 AM

116. Ugly, beautiful? Some people are still going to have it! I'm one of them! It's comming to me in october!

     Posted by: ovidiu on August 7, 2003 01:11 PM

117. So, go ahead! Hate me!

     Posted by: ovidiu on August 7, 2003 01:12 PM

118. I can't afford it?? you should cut your tongue too...
     Well...you are the one who isn't educated ...you say I'm not educated just because I wrote beautiful wrong doesn't mean I'm not educated so you are the one who isn't educated...and I still say that the new 5er is the most BEAUTIFUL car I've ever seen..

     Like ovidiu said GO AHEAD! HATE ME TOO!

     Posted by: Grof on August 7, 2003 02:58 PM

119. Ohhh...and other thing I can afford a bmw because I own a 528I! and if you don't believe me ..I really don't care what people like you osama who doesn't have good likes say....
     and againa I say that the new 5er is the most BEAUTIFUL car I've ever seen..
     

     Posted by: Grof on August 7, 2003 03:08 PM

120. again not againa...sorry:)it's just that I'm in a hurry...see ya!

     Posted by: Grof on August 7, 2003 03:09 PM

121. the 5er is ugly, just like you.

     Posted by: osama on August 7, 2003 04:09 PM

122. well that's the opinion of a person who doesn't have a thing to do except talking about cars that he can't afford..nothing to be ashamed of but you shouldn't say bad things about a car when you haven't seing it "live and in color"...

     Posted by: Grof on August 7, 2003 04:41 PM

123. you got me on that one. i won't be able to afford the new 5er when it comes out. but still, it's ugly.

     Posted by: osama on August 8, 2003 01:17 AM

124. Reading these rants has been a silly waste of time. There are likely only two relevant facts: 1) the drive and performance of the new 545 will be up to BMW 5 Series quality, and 2)opinions about the body are personal and important only to the person who has them. I am 48, have had several BMWs, and always been loyal to the brand. My personal tastes are that the new designs of the 7 and 5 lack the respectable class of former BMW designs. As such, I am now in an E55 Mercedes and find it to be every bit of the drive of BMW and with a look I was willing to pay for.

     Make up your own minds about design preference because you can count on the performance to be there. Not much else in these postings matter.

     Posted by: bruce on August 8, 2003 11:18 AM

125. You are not loyal to the brand.. and of course you have bad taste too because how coud you said the design of the new 7er and 5er lack the respectable class of former BMW designs????
     The 7er looks very good and the new 5er loos better than the 7er so you are not loyal to the brand....look..I was going to buy a E-class but Mercedes cars aren't EVERY BIT OF THE DRIVE OF BMW...the E-class isn't as good as the the new 5er..in every aspect of it..So the next time you see a new 5er live and in color you'll know that you waste your money in a car that does't even reach the new 5er to it's feet!

     So make up your mind and you'll see what I'm talking about..:)

     Posted by: Grof on August 8, 2003 02:22 PM

126. GrOOF, have you driven a new 5 series already? Because I was under impression that you've just seen one.

     Posted by: Ed on August 8, 2003 02:42 PM

127. HOW MUCH DO YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN ON THE 530 IF YOU PUT AN ORDER IN FOR ONE?

     Posted by: Deborah on August 8, 2003 03:57 PM

128. I coudn't drive it because tha car's launch it's on august 28 ...I'm going to drive ti that day...ohh and here in panama they new 530's cost is 65,800 $ including everything....

     Posted by: Grof on August 8, 2003 09:38 PM

129. When i was 16 I fell in love with bmw. I am now 22 and I finally own a 1998 bmw 5 series. I have to say this new 2004 5 series makes me sick. It lacks all style. Im sure she will run just like the others do. But im sorry if i saw that car pass me, I would vomit. I pray to god that next time they learn from there mistakes and never make another car like it. And I will refuse to buy another bmw intill they bring back some class, and style.

     Posted by: Will on August 14, 2003 03:33 AM

130. OUCH! Comment #129 .....is.....exactly correct!! I agree 100%. I would vomit if I saw the new 2004 5 series in person. Ick!

     Posted by: osama on August 14, 2003 12:31 PM

131. I have a new 545 on order.

     Just wish someone would step up to the bar and buy my 6000 mile
     "03 540 at a t a premium instead
     of one of the lowest prices for
     a 540 in the us market
     

     Posted by: ED on August 16, 2003 04:04 PM

132. I still dare to say that the E60 is the most beautiful car I ever seen...
     

     Posted by: Guille on August 18, 2003 02:30 PM